The gchat that started it all…

Daniel:  did you see my article on calvin’s wall?
me:  yeah, reading it now
i love wendell berry
haha
one of the st modules this year was actually supposed to be an introduction to environmental justice via an introduction to wendell berry, but it got removed when Sam had to leave
Daniel:  ah…
that’s sad
wendell berry is a prophet
me:  when I read him, I became a Marxist, haha
which 3 long years with Jon Lin could not do, haha
Daniel:  lolll
me:  he is able to espouse Marx’s principles in a way that is very concrete
Daniel:  this is the only thing I read by him
me:  oh really?
Daniel:  so far
but i’m sure more are to come
I’m reading “life is a miracle” next
me:  i’ve read an essay collection
Daniel:  which is a response to a Harvard academic about reductionism
me:  and a few other things
but I’d love to read more
Daniel:  he has suprsingly a lot to say about health
me:  do you have a lot of time to read at your job?
Daniel:  well
it’s outside of my job that i read
it’s only a 40hr workweek
so yea
lots of free time outside
i’ve already read lots of things
finished ‘habits of the heart’
read this book called ‘medicine as ministry’
then ‘reclaiming the body’
all very nice books
me:  jeremy just recommended me this book called “Ecstatic Existance” which is trying to articulate a new foundation for theological anthropology
maybe you’ll find it interesting, too?
 Sent at 10:06 PM on Tuesday
Daniel:  maybe
what does it mean
by theological anthropology
me:  roughly speaking = “what does it mean to be human”?
the central thesis is that to be human is to be in relationship with God
Daniel:  ah
me:  he uses three primary categories to talk about that relationship: Creation, Redemption, and Reconciliation
that’s about the extent of what I got from the Amazon review, haha
Daniel:  hahaha icic
i like berry’s take
me:  man, we should totally make a Manna Gospel Worldview blog
Daniel:  as defining being human as being whole
we should…
me:  for alumni to be able to post in
and to share books and whatnot
Daniel:  isn’t that what revisions is supposed to be haha?
me:  haha, it’s not mainly for alumni
it’s mainly for reaching the campus
I’m thinking more of a community blog
that lets us talk amongst ourselves
Daniel:  ah ic
me:  like, pseudo-private
Daniel:  that sounds cool
but then…
idk
i would love
people like calvin
to have access to this stuff too
nahm saying?
there’s a lot of things we’re talking about here that needs to see the light
me:  well, it could be good for undergrads to be able to listen into the discussions of working ppl
Daniel:  right
they don’t need contributing capacity
necessarily
greg would love to contribute to something like this too…
greg lee ’00 that is
me:  Greg Lee?
oh, do you see him often?
 Sent at 7:00 PM on Wednesday
Daniel:  yea
and for sure jack gang
all though i’m not sure how he theologically ties his work
every now and then yea
i love berry’s jab at efficiency in that article
somebody once told me
very insightfully
if God valued efficiency, he wouldn’t have given us freewill
me:  berry bashes HARD on efficiency
in his works on the economy
and on farming
Daniel:  yea
more and more
i’m starting to think efficiency is a value that works against the Kingdom
me:  man, this blog idea was just random
but I’m starting to think it would be a really good idea, hahacropped-mustardseed1.jpg
Daniel:  dude for sure
me:  maybe we could just informally start one
and invite everyone we think would be interested
Daniel:  yea i think just us two
and yea
snowball as we go
or people will read it
and they’ll want to say something about it
so we’ll tell them
instead of going to the comments section
write a response
me:  b/c the questions we are asking are BIG QUESTIONS, which will need lots of people working together on
 Sent at 10:16 PM on Tuesday
me:  well… gospelworldview.wordpress.com is available, haha
Daniel:  haha
can we buy that domain?
i’m just curious
not actually saying we should
it’s available!!
haha
me:  $18 bucks a year
Daniel:  maybe later
me:  I’ll just reserve the spot for now
Daniel:  kk
although
idk…
the term gospel worldview
sounds too tame
me:  oh, got another idea?
Daniel:  it just seems like another intellectual framework alongside a shelf full of other frameworks like marxism
i mean this is the truth man
me:  well, I thought it would just highlight the Manna connection
Daniel:  and the kingdom is doing battle against evil
i was telling sam this
last year
sam chez
i told him manna’s buzzword
shouldn’t be gospel worldview
but ‘Jesus blowing up in your face’
me:  hahah
that could mean… a lot of different things, haha
Daniel:  hahaha yea
but you see what I’m getting at
anyway
that was more of a rant
than an actual suggestions
me:  well, i’m open to suggestions if you can think of one
FrontlinesoftheKingdom?
Daniel:  too long…
what is latin for kingdom?
me:  regnum
Daniel:  you know what let’s just go with Gospel Worldview haha
me:  latin is sort of pretentious, though, haha

we can change the title of the blog to “Jesus blows up in your face” lol

right now, I just have “the news that changes everything”
Daniel:  hahaha
sounds good

me: man, i have such a great idea for a gospel-worldview restaurant

I want to pitch it to ed and see what he thinks, lol
Daniel:  lol
you should write about it
that restaurant should also be at my hospital
per Berry’s opinions
me:  or rather, the hospital should have a farm, lol
haha, the basic idea behind the restaurant is to make it less a “commodity”-oriented business but a “community”-oriented service
Daniel:  wow
that’s awesome
me:  like, the underlying assumption behind all food industry right now is that chefs are delivering a “product”, a dish
what if we challenge that assumption?
 Sent at 10:50 PM on Tuesday
Daniel:  that sounds amazing
interestingly
atul gawande
do you know him?
new yorker contributor
me:  not off the top of my head
Daniel:  health policy expert
he’s the one that wrote “better”
and “complications”?
anyway
people listen to him
and interestingly, he wrote an article not long ago
saying how the healthcare system should deliver health more efficiently and with better standardization
just like how cheesecake factory delivers its cakes
exactly the way you want
every time
i say ‘interestingly’
because in our discussion
we both have a feeling that neither healthcare nor food should be described in those terms…
me:  yeah, it’s our wendell berry influence, haha
a move away from mechanistic metaphors to organicist metaphors
interestingly enough (philosophically) it’s what happened in the shift from the Enlightenment to Romanticism in 19th c. German philosophy, haha
Daniel:  huh
i wonder what happened…
we should just post this IM conversation
as our first post
me:  the industrial revolution happened, haha
Daniel:  true dat…
me:  the romantics already saw it coming and protested against it, but their solution was insufficient
they had a communitarian ideal, but it just does not hold up when faced with the forces of capitalism
the question of how to regain that ideal… is arguably still a live one
Kuyper, interestingly enough, has an interesting essay on this called “Our Instinctive Life” in which he tries to grapple with the realities of heading up a rapidly expanding political party that was now more democratic than aristocratic
haha, we totally should just post this convo
Daniel:  im not sure
if we can philosophically recover from the industrial revolution
me:  well, there’s no going back, that’s for sure
Daniel:  probably just Christians being faithful to their calling
and living out the Kingdom despite these worldly forces
me:  knowing that all power and authority has been given to Jesus
and God’s in the process of making all his enemies a footstool for his feet
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One thought on “The gchat that started it all…”

  1. Clarifications: The book was “Eccentric Existence” by David Kelsey. Fascinating ideas – still working through it – it’s a tome. Second clarification is that he idea is that God relates to us in three irreducible ways (think Trinity) – to create us, to reconcile us to Him, and to bring us to consummation. Worth looking at.

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